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April 21, 2020
Ep. 59.- Ricky Gervais Is Back With "After Life" Season 2

On this week's episode of Kickin' & Streamin' Podcast, Graham & Jocelyn take a look back at their discussion on Netflix original series After Life, written and produced by British comedian Ricky Gervais. The series debuted on...

On this week's episode of Kickin' & Streamin' Podcast, Graham & Jocelyn take a look back at their discussion on Netflix original series After Life, written and produced by British comedian Ricky Gervais. The series debuted on Netflix a little more than a year ago and became critically acclaimed for its dignified approach to grief, loss, depression, and loneliness. Graham & Jocelyn immediately became very fond of the series; which led them to dedicate a full episode of an in-depth analysis of the topics portrayed in this dark comedy brilliantly written and acted by Gervais and a magnificent cast of actors. Ricky Gervais returns to Netflix with season 2 of Afterlife on April 24, 2020. Graham & Jocelyn have re-mastered, updated, and repurposed this episode, to get you acquainted with After Life in case you've never watched it, or to remind you of the incredibly poignant and humane circumstances portrayed on After Life. If you like this episode, please rate us on your podcast player, and subscribe for future episodes. Subscribe to our YouTube channel, follow us on social media on Faceboook, Twitter, Instagram, and Pinterest. You can also support the show by becoming a Patron on our Patreon page where you'll become eligible for our exclusive patrons-only contents. Finally, we'd like you to visit our merchandise store on Teespring where you can purchase our beautiful and stylish t-shirts, pullover, and mug. 


Graham :   0:00
and hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Kickin' & Streamin'. In fact, this week it's another episode, but a repeated episode. Because Jocelyn and I had the pleasure to introduce you to this series that we talked about about a year ago, wasn't it Jo?

Jocelyn:   0:19
 just about a year ago?  

Jocelyn:   0:20
Yeah, and it is, in fact, perhaps one of our most popular episodes. And it is about this six-episode series by Ricky Gervais on Netflix called Afterlife.

Jocelyn:   0:36
Yes, yes, of Season two is coming out on the 24th.

Graham :   0:42
That is correct, and that is why we have decided to go ahead and re-purpose this episode and re introduce you if you have not ever watched Afterlife. So go ahead and listen to this episode and then go straight away to watch the first season and so that you can be ready for Season two because that will put everything in perspective for you.

Jocelyn:   1:12
Yes, yes, Please, please watch the series. It's a beautiful series, um, I still think about something that Graham said in the show that you'll get to hear him say when you get a little bit here, when when we get talking. But uh, it's gonna stop saying, You know, "I'm happy for you, but I'm happy with you" because it's just Ah, it's Ah, it's a beautiful series.

Graham :   1:35
Yeah, And again you will hear or say that it is surprising that Ricky Gervais... we we know the creative capacity of Ricky Gervais but. Perhaps he's this might well be his greatest work, and he'll probably forever be known as the guy who created the office. But there's more to Ricky Gervais than this. And this and this is why we urge you to watch after life. The season one and two are on Netflix will be. Season 2 will be coming out as just inside on the 24th. And it is one of the most delightful TV that I've seen in a long time.  

Jocelyn:   2:25
Yeah, agreed.  

Graham :   2:27
So with that said, we are going to let you enjoy this episodes. This is what we talked about. This is how we talked about after life Season one, and at the same time we invite you. If you haven't watched season one, then please go ahead and do that so that you can be fully caught up for Season 2.

Jocelyn:   2:50

Graham :   2:51
Enjoy the show everybody.  

Jocelyn:   2:53
Thank you.  

Announcer:   2:55
This is kicking and streaming podcast of Binge Watcher's Guide to Streaming Movies. TV series, and stuff. Here are your hosts, Graham and Jocelyn.

Graham :   3:11
As if you guys didn't know already. But yeah, I'm Graham and on my other side of skype is..

Jocelyn:   3:27
  Jocelyn.... yeeeeeah It's oveeeeer!

Graham :   3:27
This has been quite a good week again. I have to talk about the weather. The weather has been good here in Charlotte, North Carolina. My friends, if you are in the Midwest Oh, are somewhere in the United States where they had a shitty Whether I'm sorry. That's just about what I'm gonna say about that, right? Is that a good look?

Jocelyn:   3:48
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. You sounded sort of sincere. Not really, But almost

Graham :   3:51
Sort of...  now we definitely have a great show for you. This week we are. Our main topic today is we're going to talk about a fantastic little show on Netflix. By.. um.. Written and directed by the phenomenal Ricky Gervais of course he's phenomenal. If he's your cup of tea. Right Jocelyn?.

Jocelyn:   4:17
This is very true. He's not always my cup of tea. I will say.

Graham :   4:21
Oh wow. Really? Yes. That is news to me. You know what I got to get to know you better, man, But, uh, it definitely...

Jocelyn:   4:34
Most of the time he's my cup of tea, but every so often he's not. I think you could probably say that about everybody. You know, nobody wants to. Well, takes a misstep in here, like, man, I really want to jerk the shit out of you, but, you know, that's okay.

Graham :   4:45
You know what that is? What was it? Such is life, right?

Jocelyn:   4:50
Such as life.

Graham :   4:51
But I do understand that I I can understand when when? Especially when it comes to Ricky Gervais being know everybody's cup of tea. But in this particular show, I think he literally if you were a baseball player, this is equivalent of of a long, long, long home run.  

Jocelyn:   5:16

Graham :   5:17
Hopefully you think sure too , Jocelyn  

Jocelyn:   5:19
I do... I do.

Graham :   5:20
because lately I don't even know you anymore.

Jocelyn:   5:24
It's like I've never even met you...

Graham :   5:26
So we, as we promised, every week we are before we get into the meat and bone of this podcasts. We also would like to take a moment to thank you for always being with us for coming back to us every week for all the listens and downloads and tell you that we see it. We appreciate it even though we don't get much interaction as we would like on on social media. But we know you there because we see we're able to see the stats and we see that you're listening and you are listening En Mass. So thank you very much. 

Jocelyn:   6:09
Yes, thank you, Lurkers. We appreciate you. Hello introverts. Cool. It's fine. I'm just happy you're listening to us. As long as you're happy. We're happy,

Graham :   6:18
Jocelyn. And I appreciate it.

Jocelyn:   6:20
Yes, thank you so much.  

Graham :   6:21
And so on the same token, we would like to invite you to follow us on Facebook. We are Kickin' and Streamin Podcast. We have a Facebook page, and on Twitter, we are @kickinnstreamin. It's just kickin N streamin, so NN streamin, right? I know. I don't always know that. I'm explaining this correctly, so we don't We're not kicking and streaming, but rather kickinnstreamin. So no, it's the letter. And exactly no, G's. No, no, no, no and. But the letter. And then also, we have a very funny instagram account.

Jocelyn:   7:03
We have fun on instagram.

Graham :   7:05
Yeah we do. We do. So let's move on to the topic of the day.

Jocelyn:   7:13
Yes, the show we both watched. I

Graham :   7:16
have you to credit for watching the show. To tell you the truth, Jocelyn and I'm talking about the show after life, what's written and directed by the fantastic Ricky Gervais. I have you to credit for it because although I read some reviews about it and again, I've never care about reviews. In fact, when I read a review, I'm such a contrarian that I always want to prove the reviews wrong. So I will tend to watch that that, you know, whatever it is that they're talking about just so I can say that's bullshit. You didn't You didn't see what I saw. So So But what I did, though, is that I put it like in the back of the pile, like Okay, so I know that it's not that great off a show according to the reviews. So I'm just gonna watch it whenever I get. They have time. Until you told me. Graham, I think you should watch it. Yeah. So, um, tell down our listeners what the show's about in in your most

Jocelyn:   8:28
in my own words,

Graham :   8:29
elaborated words and opinions and stuff because I know, I know you saw something in the show, and  

Jocelyn:   8:37
I did.  

Graham :   8:37
And yes, I would like to do what you what you think of it?

Jocelyn:   8:41
Um well, it's It's called after life. And, um, it's with Ricky Gervais. And it's written from the point of view of a man who had a very close and loving relationship with his wife. Um, a funny relationship, a loving relationship. And, uh, she unfortunately has died. And we step into the show where he is that kind of the lowest. Maybe not the lowest, but a very low point of his grief process. Um, so we don't It doesn't go through the whole, you know, watching her die or anything like that. It skips over that part. We kind of get into the dark days of depression and grief and the 1st 2 episodes for me, I watched the 1st 2 episodes. I have to say, I cried like a baby through both of the episodes. Um, I think I used up a whole box of tissues because for me, it was so Ricky Gervais so captured on point, the way grief feels and the way depression feels as well. Um, the hatred of people just for being alive.  

Graham :   10:07
Yes, we've talked about this, Jocelyn, and that's that's that's where that's why I wanted you to be the one to describe these for me. Because I know we've had those conversations and I know exactly why. Why would you tell me the 1st 2 episodes? Uh, kind of puts you there, and I was like, Look, I know exactly what she's going. Please continue. Yes,

Jocelyn:   10:33
Um, yeah, because they're you know, he's, he's, he's there's so much anger in him at the world and there's so much emptiness and there's so much hatred and that's the way it is. That's how we feel as human beings. When we're down in grief when we're down in depression, that's how it is, and Yes, there's some funny parts to it when you're depressed, cause there is in life, too. So there's some ridiculous things that happen that you just like, I can't believe I'm doing this right. Yeah, but it's it's really life. And he, I feel, has captured it so well in this series. Um, the 1st 2 episodes. Ah, there's a mention of a suicide attempt and then there is a, uh, portrayal of a suicide attempt. Um, so probably should say trigger warning for anybody out there. Um, there's nothing graphic or anything like that. But part of the reason that I personally got crying so hard towards this is because there's a character in the series of Good Girl and Good Girl is a dog and I call her a character because she's more than just a dog in the show. Um, she's very, very important. She's is important as all of the many other characters in the show. And, uh, good girl is the one that stops the suicide attempt in. I believe it's the second episode, and that hit me so hard because I having had some bad things happen in my life. I that one hit me in a very personal and very close spot and the fact that it was done so well. Hey, so it was handled with empathy and with pathos and with just the way that life actually is. It was it was beautiful and, um, for the entire series, it's sort of it follows sort of the process of depression. I think it speeds things up a little bit of course it has to, because it's a TV show, a little bit of the process of grief. But I think a lot of the important points that it hits are so they ring so true that it's a rare thing that I have seen in television for grief or depression for television or TV shows to hit that note just right. And this show does. Um, it's not to say it's perfect. There's a few little little quibbles I have with show, but I think that if you're somebody that's ever lost someone that you really cared about or if you've ever struggled with depression or if you have had both, um, I think the show will resonate with you. Um, I think it might help you in some ways because you're going to go. Holy shit. I'm not the only one who's felt like this. He was felt like strangling people just because they're alive and this other person isn't so. I just think it's I think it's a great little little Series. It's six episodes. Each episode is less than half an hour long, and I really think it's worth your time to watch it.

Graham :   14:03
Yes, look a perfect, perfect description. Perfect synopsis without spoiling no spoilers, anything you've gone. You've captured the essence of the show. And I think for me, what I'm most impressed about is the fact that you can... Ricky Gervais, managed to make a show about sadness without making it sloppy and sad. Um...

Jocelyn:   14:32
Yes, exactly! it's not modeling.

Graham :   14:34
 right? And as matter of fact, there is an element of catharsis in in every episode. If you will almost a showing of the light of the at the end of the tunnel kind of thing every moment, every time, whenever he sunk to his lowest. And again, how important is Brandy? The good girl is a and why it shows. Why is it like I cannot I will never understand people who don't You don't wanna have a pet. I have nothing against people who don't like dogs or like cats. That's what I'm saying. I'm not being judgy. I'm just saying that I don't understand. I cannot. I will never be able to understand why not. Why not? Because I know that the story's written that way. But really, I think the moment he discovers that he's got something to care for something or someone he should care about. Always...not, You know, having a sister. Not necessarily. You know, having a god son and nephew that he really cares about, Like cares about more than he cares to admit,  As a matter of fact.

Jocelyn:   15:58

Graham :   15:59
none of that really mattered. If in the moments where he was at his lowest point to taking his own life ,but, the dog was so... uh such an opportunity for him to realize. So what? What happens? How is she going to survive? What's going to happen to her by the time they find me? You know, hold

Jocelyn:   16:29
And she's not gonna know where I went. She's not gonna understand what happened to me. Um, you know, I will have traumatized her for ever. And, you know, for people who aren't dog lovers or who aren't animal lovers, that is probably not something that's going to resonate with them. But it certainly resonated with me. So yeah, good girl is a great character. She is written beautifully, and the interaction between Ricky Gervais and good Girl is I think, I don't know if she's his dog. In real life,

Graham :   17:05
I hope so I know that I know that it was more for a cat person to tell you the truth like that. My following him on Twitter Um, he's always going on about his cat. I've hardly ever seen him post a picture of a dog, but I hope Brandy, the good girl, is his dog. For really, you're right

Jocelyn:   17:27
because they their chemistry is great. Their chemistry is better than I've seen between some actor and actress is propped. It's to the I don't know the actual real name of the dog. The actor, actor, actress dog that's in it. But, um, she's she's great, cause she's nothing of it. You know how in a lot of movies when there's a dog or a cat or whatever, you can kind of see them like looking off to the side and watching the trainer and then being like, that's what I'm supposed to do and then doing it. And I never got any of that through this this belt very natural. This felt like a relationship between the two of them in what was happening.

Graham :   18:07
That's that's exactly that's exactly the thing like, um, like you said, it felt like it was his dog. And she was. She was ready to, you know, roll with him, right?  

Jocelyn:   18:19

Graham :   18:20
Um, so there's all of these human emotions that we get to see and again. Here's what's brilliant for me about this show being Ricky Gervais and written and directed by  Ricky Gervais, I know that most of the time we get to see Ricky Gervais being a jerk, but in a comedic way. And I know that most of the time we are expecting him to be the jerk in a comedic way. That's fine. But Afterlife is not even about that. Afterlife is actually  Ricky Gervais being as he is at his most brilliant as a writer at his most brilliant as an actor and at the same time as his most brilliant, committed, comically like like the guy is a perfect trifecta of beautiful things. Um, for him to have written this. I don't know if this credit to anybody else because I know that in the end it just says written and directed by  Ricky Gervais. But, man, I'm telling you, every character has a purpose, and nobody felt like it was just there to fill in... D'you see what I mean... like

Jocelyn:   19:51
I do.. I do. There was no like stooge. There was no sidekick. There is No, um oh, I'm here as a straw man, or I'm here is Ah, there was none of that. There was No, I'm gonna be an example of this. I'm gonna be an example of that. It was just no piers these people in my life And here's how I feel towards them. And the casting was brilliant, too. I thought a lot of the, um most of the actors I was not familiar with.

Graham :   20:21
 Oh yeah you were...

Jocelyn:   20:21
um your lady is course from Doctor who? Yeah,

Graham :   20:25
And Broadchurch. There were there was several characters from Broadchurch there. From Doctor who?

Jocelyn:   20:32
Yes, special. For the most part, for the most part, I didn't recognize everybody, but they were, they were great and they're each of each of them played the roles very, very well. Uh, a little kid is good too.

Graham :   20:44
Yes, George George David Bradley from game of Thrones. So I let me at fault for the game of Thrones watchers. David Bradley is, um, old dude from game of Thrones. And, um, let me see. What is his name of on game of Thrones? I

Jocelyn:   21:13
See, I can't help you at all.

Graham :   21:15
Walder Frey He is Walder Frey on game of Thrones. So if if anybody remembers the red wedding, you know who I'm talking about. So that's that. That's the man that plays Ricky Gervais's father on this series. 'kay, so Walder Frey of Game of Thrones. Okay, carry on. So, what I was... what I was going to where I was going with with this,  Jocelyn, is that you know me by now. And I plunged into a whole series of analysis in in a show like this, and I was smiling the entire time toward episode 4, 5 and six because I felt like the show was brilliantly getting to its point and the point that it was bringing it wasn't a matter of. Oh, yeah, There's always a better day. You don't have to kill yourself for whatever, whatever. That wasn't necessarily the part like it wasn't even in an advocacy for, you know, if you're suicidal, kill yourself. You know, if your not suicidal kill yourself was rather a moral statement and that moral statement, ties into listen to this one the very first season for me. The very first season off a show that we've talked about: The Good Place.  

Jocelyn:   22:51

Graham :   22:52
Do you see where I'm going with you here? I'm going

Jocelyn:   22:56
I do see where you're going with that

Graham :   22:57
because the reason why I was smiling is because this entire week have been thinking about how a show like The Good Place... Do you remember me asking you, Jocelyn, why is the Good Place not more of a popular show, cos. You know, it's funny, it has good cast and it's great in every way in every way. But I kind of understood now throughout this week why it is not a very popular show, and it is because it forces us. It talks about us confronting our ugliness. And it goes into the philosophy of of Tim Scanlon. Right? And Tim Scanlon posited only one question about life like, no matter what you believe in, no matter what your religion is, it does not matter what you you you beliefs are as long as you are unable to answer the question: What do we owe to each other," Then you have a problem with your moral compass, you know, And this is this is where I started smiling because you know, the the Tony, the character  of  Ricky Gervais starts to discover that actually, there might not be anything wrong with my being a jerk. He's like, But again, there might not be anything wrong with my trying to punish people because I hurt. But then there are people that deserve it, and they're people that are not. And when I am terrible towards the people that don't deserve it, then I'm a jerk. Yeah, but when I am giving that attitude of jerkiness to people that have been jerk, then I'm merely being reciprocal, you know? I mean, at it. And so in. So this answers the question off contractual ism that Tim Scanlan posited in that the entire first season of The Good Place talked about, right? Yes, it is a my, um I like getting in my head with that.

Jocelyn:   25:35
Not at all. No, I agree with you 100%. I, um if we don't know if if we're just gonna go around being jerks to everybody, whether they deserve it or not, then we're just a jerk. But our motivations are motivation in life. Needs to be what we loaded the lady on the bench. Say, you know, you're a good person and there needs to be more good people because they're just may seems to be more more assholes, right?  

Graham :   26:10
They and I had that question in my head because otherwise they win, and I'm like okay. It would be nice if you tell us who's Who are they and then,  

Jocelyn:   26:19

Graham :   26:19
and then Tony asked Who are they? Oh, yeah. The arse holes. Yeah, but, you know, the old lady makes me happy. The old lady makes me happy because she is the perfect voice off wisdom that every great series or movies should have. Except that she wasn't cliche that. Yes, and that's what I loved about it. Like, she wasn't that old guy alone. Almost mysterious and blah, blah, blah. She was another grieving human being that had a completely different point of view on that grieving. And I think she was the most. She was the one that actually sort of, like, dropped the entire philosophical position of the show, if you will. And yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and read a quote here, and I had to actually pause it and tell you that quote I don't know. I don't know if, um, this is what this was something that came up in the show that when the show was been written, this is originally from the show, or if it's some great Greek philosopher or some great modern philosopher, said these. But there was a moment when she said to uh to Tony: "A society grows great when old men plant trees the shade of which they know they'll never sit in."  I thought Marvellous, wonderful, like you could go everywhere with this, right? Because, here's the thing, in this climate that we are right now, um, A we leave in a society of egocentrism of a lot of narcissism. Um, a lot of lack of empathy. A lot of people being jerk because, you know, that's what we get. We we watched the news, we read the news, and we literally see world leaders being jerked to each other jerks to each other. We literally see nations being terrible towards each other, you know? And then she moves on to say "happiness is, um is an amazing thing, even when it's not your own."

Jocelyn:   29:07
Yeah, that one hit me in the fields.

Graham :   29:09
Oh, Lord, Yeah. Tell me what you... like, Tell me how I  hit you. Because because I want I want to hear because I was watching a little show that last 30 minutes per episode, and I had to pose several times just so I could catch my breath and think about what I was hearing. The most fantastic dialogue I've heard in a show for long time. "Happiness is an amazing thing, even when it's not yours". 

Jocelyn:   29:41
Yeah, because it's It's so true if you are next to someone who is truly happy. Um, I mean, take the example of a, child. I'll take the example of one of my little nieces who is truly happy and she is living in the moment. And she is, Let's say where you know, at the at the playground, and she is enjoying living in the moment, playing in the swings, playing in the dirt. It's amazing because you feel it, too, even if you're having the worst crappiest, most horrible day, mental illness, depression, grief, whatever. But you can feel that you can feel it, and it comes shining through and it touches you, and it's so true because it's not my happiness. I'm not the one who's happy, who's down in the dirt playing, but I'm happy because you are because it's shining out of you and it's reaching out. And the warmth of your joy can touch even my heart.

Graham :   30:44
It is an absolutely contagious thing. Yes, she as in That's like, If you think about it, Jocelyn, that is the true essence of happiness. Because it's it's almost as if it was a composed thing that several elements have to come together in that happiness for for for you to experience it. And when you think about it, happiness to you. Happiness to me is seeing everybody around me. Being happy is seeing everything falling into into place, isn't it? Yes, you're happy at your happiest when I don't know, like I'm at my happiest. For instance, when I cook something and you know I can actually watch my family eat it and they come back and say, Hey, this is good, you know? And perhaps even hungry. And in fact, by them saying that I have had all the food that I wanted to have. No, I always end up eating a lot. But what I'm saying is the happiness that I feel is because I know that they are enjoying this day, and by then they're happy. So I'm happy if you're happy. I'm happy. That's the contagious thing of happiness and and for for For these two have come outs so beautifully and in so many in such few words as to saying: Happiness is a beautiful thing. Even when it's not your own is by saying it's almost. It's in fact saying when you're not happy but you see happiness, you have no option but to feel happy. That's when Well, that is when we say I'm happy for you. Yes, but I think from now on I will say, I'm happy with you. Do you know? I mean, because

Jocelyn:   32:48
I like that you like

Graham :   32:50
that. That's that's that's That's the way you should feel, right? Yeah.

Jocelyn:   32:55
Yeah, I like that. I'm happy with you.

Graham :   32:57
I'm happy with you. I'm enjoying this thing. Which, because you know what, Um, another character that we haven't talked about and I feel like it was I don't know how you can make e a person who is dead in the story to be such a central and beautiful part of a series. I can tell you for a fact that every time he was watching one of those little videos of his uh wife. Lisa. Yes, I was smiling. Yes, and I actually wrote one of my notes says Lisa was a saint.

Jocelyn:   33:47
She was because I would've strangled him. Oh, my Oh, my truly made for each other.

Graham :   33:56
Oh, wow. Oh, wow. I don't know. She was never mad at him, at least never When? And he caught this moment on camera. I don't want to spoil anything for anybody. So you have to watch the show. But because, like, by the third time, Jocelyn, I was ready to kind of like I'm like, if it was me I'd have, at least thrown a shoe at him or something. She

Jocelyn:   34:23
Yeah, she just left. Which I think I think, um, I had someone say something to me once, that about grief that really spoke to me. And I think it'll probably speak to other people who've lost someone that they care about because that grief isn't just about the fact that you've loved someone and that you've lost them. It's not just about the fact that you loved them, but it's about the fact that they loved you. And now that love is gone in the sense that you don't feel it anymore, necessarily. And I think that this series really touches on that, because you can see the fact that they had such a good relationship that they were so in love and there was so much love between the two of them and the fact that he, of course, still loves her. That doesn't change, But the grief is us because you've lost that love. The love that was coming towards you is not there anymore. And you feel that in your life that hole in your life is there and that I think that that really I think the show captures grief very well in in a non maudlin on condescending non ah er trickily way . Um, it's just very matter of fact of this is kind of how it goes for some of us.

Graham :   35:58
You absolutely right, because most... I know that.... movies and series always capture uh, grief in the most... with the most common denominator thing, which is crying, crying. I don't remember Tony's character crying

Jocelyn:   36:25
very, very rarely get choked up, but there's no like, yeah, and most the time and he was getting choked up was when he was starting to progress towards Resolute when that resolution. But progress towards the light, Let's say

Graham :   36:39
And that's the thing. Like, you know, let's just stop it right there. You know, like grief is not, it's not about You're crying and sobbing and blah, blah, blah. That's and that's what we see. And I think like sometimes we expect, you know, as human beings we're expecting "well the crying is going to stop at some point," you know, I mean, like, even even a child you like. All right, let me let me let me let me help you stop crying. And so this is where, like when you're watching a movie and there's a lot of crying. There's a lot of crazies, love crying. All you see is like, When is it going to stop whenever that they're going to move on? But that feeling of "oh for fuck's sake,  move on!" never came to you when you were when you were at least for me. When I was watching this, it was like I want to see how he deals with it. I want to see how he copes with it. And even when he was coping in the... with it in the worst way I was able to understand. And even when he started to progress when he started to come out of it, I felt like it was at the right time. and that to me, is the magic of this show, like things like, you know, like it wasn't like, Okay, he's had gotta come out of it because there's only one episode left. That wasn't the thing it was. Yeah, this is the right time. This is like the buildup to finding, um, a way out of this sadness. This black cloud was perfect enough that I as the what? The person watching the show I am Okay, with him starting to move on? Now what? I felt like it was the right moment to ask that lady out. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Dad was insane. I love that. That little moment of clarity that Dad had that was so beautiful. Yeah, because, you know, um, he showed love, you know? I mean, he showed love, But then, of course, you're gonna go ahead and express love to me. Get out of here. You know, on. And thatwas That's a perfect. That's a perfect old dad, right? Like, Yep. Youknow, there's a There's a joke that goes out that goes around on the Internet. This lot of memes about Haitian parents -Um, a lot of you know, I'm Haitian-  and one of them says how Haitian mothers apologize to their children. And then the caption is: You hungry? Yeah, they give you a  Good ass whooping and then they feel bad for you, but they can't manage to say. You know what? Come here. I love you. And I'm sorry I was so harsh with you. The way of saying that is you're hungry. And I feel like that was that moment with Dad, right? He was like, man, yeah, it's all everything that Are you all right? But like, "I love you, Dad?" Fuck outta here!, so that moment was beautiful, because that is a dad moment. That is a dad. A moment that you can't tell me that that isn'tat that moment. That was beautiful.

Jocelyn:   40:38
Yeah, Yeah, it was good. Yeah.  

Graham :   40:42

Jocelyn:   40:42
I, uh I have to say there's there's one thing that I did not like about the series. And I will feel, um, untrue to myself. if I don't mention this, so I'm gonna mention it. Um uh,  Ricky Gervais to me, takes the fat jokes a little too far. And I think he feels that he can do this because he himself is a little bit overweight. Um, but some of the fat jokes. And I know some of it was his character being an asshole. Um, but I think some of it, too, is just  Ricky Gervais. And so there's for me. There was some cringe e bits in there with with some of the fat jokes because, you know, when the women friend, when he had a hold of because there's an overweight friend in the space in he had a hold of the friend's back fat and was making fun of him over the back fat that bothered me because, I mean, I know the friend in the series was okay with it. Nick, you know, this is just him and what he does, and that guy, that character, by the way, is great. But for me, it was like, Okay, I'm sorry. You just kind of took that a little too far for me. And I understand that you're being an asshole. But could we find another way to be an asshole? That's my only thing. And I just have to say that goes like I said, I feel like I'm not gonna be true to myself if I don't mention the fact that I was not okay with all of the fat jokes in the in the series.  

Graham :   42:12
Yeah. I mean, yes, the fat jokes, the fat jokes. Were they at no point made me laugh because I don't understand. I've never been able to understand how these kind of abuse to a friend is okay. Yeah, like maybe maybe a dude that I don't know, you know, made some snarky remark about me, and I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna get back at you, You know what I mean? But to a friend, I don't... I've never been able to understand that kind of abuse uh.. verbal abuse to a friend. Um and yeah, I think I think you're right. But yes, we know that Ricky Gervais has a problem with He's got a problem with political correctness and he has a way of rationalizing some of the cringiest shit that he does, and that that is actually the main reason why most of the people that don't like  Ricky Gervais, don't like him, is because of that. Because he will. He will get you to the point of cringe where you like: "Oh Come on! You were doing so well."  you know. I mean, yeah, You know what you like. I like you. I want to continue to like it. Why do you have to go there?  

Jocelyn:   43:42
Yeah,  that's it. That's it. Exactly. That's the white. Why did there was that serves no purpose. We could have done this... to me. You know, we could have done something else that would have been plenty or or something. So there was a few that that bothered. But overall, the series is great. I just had to mention the fat jokes because they did kind of stick in my craw little bit. 

Graham :   44:08
There were... like my cringe. The cringiest part for me, to tell you the truth was when that dude's girlfriend came to the office.

Jocelyn:   44:16
Yes, yes, That bugged me too.

Graham :   44:19
He knows that. But why? Like why? You know why? There's no point to that Like, I understand that you are looking for a way to being an asshole. But why? And it felt like it was piling on on that same dude. Always, that is. That's abussive, you know.

Jocelyn:   44:45
Yes. Yes,

Graham :   44:46
And again. That's that's the kind of there was the thing about the milk stuff, you know? Yeah, that was that was bad. That was poor taste. But again, it's yes, Ricky surveyed even that wasn't that bad for me. But those there was a last very last moment that before they left the house. Why did you have to write that? The thing about the bread and you know Oh, come on. No.

Jocelyn:   45:21
Yeah. No. Yeah, that that was that we didn't need that. Didn't need to be in the show. Exactly. Don't. Yes. You don't know that I was born in the series. Yeah, you've got a beautiful little series going on. And, um, you've got some stuff in here that I just kind of feel like if he led an editor, be like, OK, look, I know you're  Ricky Gervais, and I know this is your stick, but please, let's take some of the fat jokes on some of this. This other questionable stuff That's not funny. It would be one thing if it was funny, but I I can't see.  

Graham :   45:59
I cannot see that there was anybody that felt that was laughable, like yeah, Okay. The part where this dude was gurgling the pudding or whatever and Richard was like, negotiated weather. Is that? Yeah. I could laugh at that. Be especially at the soundtrack. But when? Boom. That word was said, uh and I'm like, Why? Why? Just why? No, no cool, No cool. And we're gonna let you see it. I hope we haven't spoiled anything really? For you because we've talked about We tried to go around the show a lot without saying much. Um, although we said a lot,

Jocelyn:   46:50
we've said a lot, but I don't think we've spoiled anything because I don't I don't really think there's anything to necessarily spoil, um I mean, you know, at the outset that the wife is dead, so that doesn't come as a shock. Yeah. Um, but but I think I just think that it was from someone like Ricky Gervais to get something that was so empathetic and showed such humanity. Um, I was just a delightful breath of fresh air. And, um, I know entertainment. A lot of the time is escapism, but for me. This was entertainment. That was, um, educational, I guess, in some sense. And also, in another sense, um, kind of helped me come to terms with some things that happened to my own life. So

Graham :   47:44
I I agree. I agree with with you, especially the last thing you said coming to terms with some things that have happened to us. Because the fact of the matter is, sometimes we go a long time without actually properly grieving. Yeah, um, be it because we don't have a job where we can walk out any time we don't feel like being there, you know, whereas he did. Yeah. Like, uh, good. I can't just, you know, I'm going for a walk from way can say that, and most people can't write, right, And you get a few days, and then you go back to work and life move on and and you find yourself instead of grieving properly, you'll find yourself bottling stuff away and you come to moments in life where you're like, Oh, and then all of it comes out in Paul. You start crying and stuff.

Jocelyn:   48:56
Yeah, bottles start breaking.

Graham :   48:57
Yes. And you know, I think this was good to see this was this was sort of a discovery of what grieving is all about and why there shouldn't be any shape in it. Yes. And with that said, um, we would like to recommend strongly. We urge you, in fact, to go and watch Afterlife.  

Jocelyn:   49:30
It's on Netflix.  

Graham :   49:32
Yep. It's a six-episode series

Jocelyn:   49:37
Yeah. Yeah. Each episode is less than half an hour.

Graham :   49:39
Yeah, sure. You can reach

Jocelyn:   49:42
time investment going on?

Graham :   49:43
Yeah. Yeah, actually did it. I actually did it in a matter of two hours. Um, so you could do it. Won't take you the whole weekend. And, um, it's a beautiful thing. Beautiful show. Beautiful material. Great cast. I want to say placed

Jocelyn:   50:09
for the people who do you watch it? I hope you start some conversations. Maybe with some of the folks around you about grief, about depression. Um, about the sad things that are going on in our lives because I think a lot of us tend to not talk about that, Um, even to people that were close to So, um, I hope maybe if you get the chance to watch it with somebody that you guys maybe can have a conversation about grief, about depression, about what happens when we lose someone that we care about. Because even if it hasn't happened to us yet, at some point, it's going to. And it would just be really good to have had someone that you've had that conversation with already. To be able to, go. You know what? I've got that in my memory and, uh, kind of replay that in your head because e think we're all gonna need that someday.

Graham :   51:04
Yeah, well said, Jocelyn another thing for me that I learned in the show with this show is that you know, whoever you feel that you have a chemistry with, don't be judgy about it. Just just just just become that friend. Yeah, um, no matter what other people think about that other person And please remember that human beings are going to sometime mess up. They're going to fail you sometimes. And yes, when they fail you be ready. Be ready to start anew, be ready to start a new be ready to say, Let's put this behind us and kind of move on. But you know, this is your warning or something, but don't just write off people right away. The first minute that they fail you because we always were always bound to fail. We've failed some people we know. We've failed our parents. We failed our families. We've failed our partners, our loved ones. So don't be so strict to people that you let in your life and they fail you the first time, the second time or some of the time. Just be ready to or to to see. Put yourself in their in their shoes and understand why it is that sometimes the stab... the stability that your friendship brings to the person's life could be chaotic because they're not used to it sometimes is their own way of pushing you away because they know that the first moment that they put their foot in their mouths you gonna walk away. So sometimes I kind of help you. They can I help you with that by massively failing you? Yeah, but show friendship, show solidarity, show understanding. Then go back and tell them. Look, man. Yeah, I'm willing. I'm willing to just take it from here again. As long as you promise that next time you're gonna think about it twice before you hurt me. Yeah, and I'm not talking about forgiveness. I think Jocelyn and I had one time we had a fantastic conversation about forgiveness. If I think that that that conversation, as a matter of fact, if I can say that sort off, um sealed the beginning of our friendship in a way because it was that like-mindedness was so uncanny that I couldn't take it. I'm like I have to become. I have to become friends with this lady. Um uh, you know, it's a conversation for another time, really; that of forgiveness. And again, please. I'm not talking about forgiveness. Forgive if you want. Forget if you want. What I'm talking about is giving other chances. Giving another chance more than once and forgetting about judgment, forgetting about requisites. Just just be friends to somebody more because, you know, they need a friend as opposed to how much you need A friend life will repay you for that.

Jocelyn:   55:00
Yeah. And, uh, in the words of the old lady, don't Don't let the assholes win.

Graham :   55:06
Yes, they can't win. Um, we see, we have testimony in this country in this present moment of what happens when the assholes win. We're living through it.  

Jocelyn:   55:22
Don't let The Assholes win.

Graham :   55:24
So thank you, everyone for listening another time. And we hope you like this episode.  

Jocelyn:   55:30
Yes, Thank you.  

Graham :   55:32
Look, we're not trying to bore, you here.  We're just trying to, um, to leave you with something every time. The show. This podcast is about entertainment. But it is also the conversation with you. And we hope you'll take a ride along with us with this conversation way. Hope you like it. Yes. All right. Well, have a good day, everyone. Thank you.  

Jocelyn:   56:02
Thank you, everyone,  buh bye.